Equally, as Joseph Chilton Pearce points out, if the “strange attractor” is demonic, the system can go downwards very fast.

We've seen the demonic aspect, particularly in the warring nations, where people get caught and go further and further into what they know is not what they want to do really - which is kill everything around them. You can just see how people can get trapped when they are trying to “win” that way.

But this may also be the sign that we are ready for the dissipative structure [of society] to jump. Because in a dissipative structure, when the organism is using more energy to handle its own dysfunction and everything it does makes things worse - like more military intervention makes for more violence, and more economic growth makes for more global warming - you have to look for the nonlinear exponential interaction of what is working; And I think we're at the threshold. … It can't take hundreds of years, because we can't go on like this hundreds of years and survive.

TBH – There’s a lot of talk about the year 2012, where the Mayan Long Count calendar comes to an end, and a grand cycle in the Kali Yuga finishes. Some people fear it will be the end of the world. Can you address this in terms you’ve been talking about?

Barbara - There's a lot of prophecy about the year 2012. Ervin Laszlo has written a book called Chaos Point in which he says we have six years to do this in. And when I asked him about it, he said it's not that this prophecy is true. He said a lot of people believe it. Therefore use it. It's like the experiments with random number generators. Let's say that everybody thinks that 2012 is it. So it's going to affect reality by believing it. I'm very hopeful. I'm excited to be living through this next 10 years.

TBH- So basically we’re evoking a change.

Barbara - We are evoking it. I believe that conscious evolution is the context for the evolution of humanity, and that conscious evolution exists in every field of endeavor. People are realizing that the systems - their own lives - have to be evolved. The result of this is not more of the same, but an actual radical newness as great as from Neanderthal to Homo sapiens, if not greater. Because if we go from Homo sapiens sapiens to Homo universalis, with all the scientific and technological and spiritual capacities working along with social synergy, you've got a new species.